Hey! Today's debate topic day! This one is another one from Roni!
Do you think abortion is wrong or right? In what situations? Explain your opinion on abortion in your comment.
I realized that I haven't told any of the new members my email address. This is my email address. You guys can email me about anything...
whyilovejesusblog@yahoo.com !
-Zoe
MEMBERS!!!
74 comments:
I know that some of you have already debated this, but I and a lot of other people haven't, so I'm sure it will be a big debate, with some strong and interesting opinions.
First of all, and I don't want to be cliche, but abortion is murder. Yeah, I can already see all of you Pro-Choicers out there groaning, so I have to tell you that I am very Pro-Life (with a few exceptions). We actually debated this in an emotional debate in debate class (sorry for saying debate so much), and I realized that many teenagers are actually Pro-Choice, which shocked me.
I'd also like to mention that my being Pro-Life has absolutely nothing to do with my religion. I'm bothered by people that take on this and other beliefs solely because it is what their religion stands for.
Lastly, I'd just like to say why I believe abortion is murder. No matter what way you put it, the life that is aborted would have lived otherwise. It would have lived if it wasn't "aborted" (or killed as I like to put it). Does the term murder change depending on the age of the victim? Nope. A life is killed. Or, if you don't agree with that statement, you can't disagree with this one: "A life is prevented from living." And that is basic fact.
Alexa, I totally agree with you. I'm totally against abortion and I am pro-life. Even if that wasn't what my religion believed, I would still be totally pro-life. I totally disagree with killing innocent babies.
-Zoe
Zoe and Alexa, I can see where you are comming from. I can understand how you can see how abortion is murder. But it isn't.The baby is not alive yet. It is like killing a seed. If you are so against muderering inosent people, what about woman who are rapped, get pregnat, and die from child birth? What if those girls could have lived if they got an abortion? Also, you might not agree with abortion, but should we take away the option to those that do? So I want to know, would you personaly not get an abortion or do you want no to be able to get an abortion?
Roni actually brought up the point that i was going to make. It is perfectly acceptable to be against getting an abortion. But what scares me about people who are "pro-life" is that why want abortion to be illegal.
You see, prochoice does not mean we are pro abortion. It means we support the right for women to make that choice themselves. We simply cannot put ourselves in all of those women's positions. There are a million and one possibilities as to why they would need an abortion.
Therefore, I ask if you are simply against abortion meaning you think it is a terrible thing, and you would never have it done yourself OR you feel that way AND you want to make it illegal for anyone else to have an abortion?
The thing is, I have no problem with people who are personally against abortion. But when you feel like it should be illegal for EVERYONE, regardless of the situation, that's when I begin to get upset....
I think that abortion should be illegal for everyone because it is murder. Would you kill a child? I didn't think so. That's the same thing as getting an abortion. There are so many ways to give birth including natural birth or c-section birth, that it is very rare that women die from giving birth. Hardly any women die from child birth anymore. I don't think that anyone should have the right to get an abortion and kill a child. I know what you're going to say to this. You're going to ask about the people that get raped. Well I'm not talking about those people right now. Anybody that doesn't want a child shouldn't be having sex, especially those whose lives could be in danger from child birth. I believe that people should practice abstinence from having sex until they're married so there won't be any mistakes and women won't get accidentally pregnant. I don't really think that anyone that isn't married should be having sex, especially those young people. The people of today have so many problems. People are getting pregnant left and right because they're having sex with their partner, just for the heck of it, or just for fun. I don't think that's right. Once anyone is married, I think people are allowed to have sex as much as they want, mostly because they're married and are together forever (unless they get divorced, but that doesn't count in what I'm saying.)
-Zoe
I agree with Strudel and Roni. I do not care if you personaly would not get an abortion, but I do not think that we should take the right from everyone. I personaly would not get an abortion. But I do not want to take the right away from those that do.
I, without a doubt, think that abortion should be illegal. It makes me soooo very sad to see a baby get killed, and legally? That makes me cringe in horror. Not only would I never even consider getting an abortion, I don't think that most women should be allowed to have abortions, either. There are certain exceptions, however, such as in rape (they never took the risk of having sex willingly, thus shouldn't be forced to deal with the consequence) and in incest (the baby could be born with severe problems). I also agree with abortions when the woman or the baby's life is at risk. For these cases, if abortion were illegal, they could apply to the government for an abortion. Besides that, I think that every women should have to deal with the consequence. You have sex willingly, then accept responsibility for your actions. Don't let another human being die for your mistake. Of course, this is the majority of the cases (I think about 95% of abortion cases are this kind of case). That means 95 out of 100 babies are aborted due to a mother not accepting reponsibility. A mother that took the risk of having sex, and wasn't ready to face the consequence.
I'm going to give you a scenario. A young woman gets pregnant. She is so poor that she can't even feed herself. She can't afford to have a baby. So, some people would say have an abortion. BUT THERE IS ANOTHER SOLUTION. There are programs all over the United States that help these women. FOR FREE, a home, food, and all birthing needs are provided for. They stay till they have the baby, and then they can give it up for adoption. Like in abortion, they "get rid of the baby, without any expense towards themselves." Unlike in abortion, they accept responsibility for their actions and a human being isn't murdered.
Zoe when you say that you aren't talking about woman who are rapped, it makes me think you can't come up with a debate for that topic. And woman are not going to use abortion as birth controll. It is expensive and dramatizing. ABORTION IS NOT MUREDER!!!!! It might be taking away opertunity for life, but that is not murder. So stop saying it is. Woman don't often die from birth, but they can. Sometimes they can not physically live through child birth. That is why abortion should be an option. For those rare case situations.
Alexa, if all those programs are out there, then why do teenage moms still have to drop out of highschool to take care of there children? Should someone have to face the consequence of not getting an education and ruining there whole life for inresponsibley having sex? Isn't going through the drama of abortion a big enough consiquence?
Alexa, I really like the idea of the mothers taking responsiblility and going to a shelter for pregnant women. I think that places like that should be more available around the country. That could lower the rate of abortion y so much, but I still want to stop it. I don't think it's right to kill a baby. I'm sorry if you disagree but I wasn't raised to think that killing anything was right, not a fly, not a baby. I know, people are going to start saying "it's not a baby yet" and "it isn't really a life cause it's not born yet" Well that's wrong. Once a baby is conceived, it's a baby. I don't care what you say, but getting an abortion is killing a life that could have been lived.
-Zoe
Zoe, you can think it is not a baby all you want but it isn't. It is fact that it is not a baby. Fact. If you are so against killing inosent babies, then why do you belive in the Limbo of Infants place?
I didn't say I believed in the Limbo of Infants "place" Roni. And yes, at conception, a baby is a baby and killing it is murder! Stop saying it isn't.
-Zoe
One of the definitions of "baby" is "a human fetus." Check out Dictionary.com, under baby "human fetus" is listed at number 5. Are you going to tell me that it isn't a human fetus either? What would you like to call it?
Also, a baby or fetus or whatever is also living, because it exhibits all the five (or six, I can't remember) signs of life. So, if it exhibits all this, how can it be called not living?
Women frequently have funerals for babies that they miscarried. They're treated just like any other human beings that have died on this earth. Just try to tell a woman that she shouldn't be grieving over her lost baby because it wasn't alive. I can tell you that every woman that has miscarried has had to grieve, just like if they had lost another family member or friend. Why? Because the "fetus" or baby as I like to call it, was living, and is now dead.
Okay, sorry for all these little comments, but I'm not good at gathering all my thoughts together. :)
Secondly, it is a teenager's CHOICE to drop out of school to have a baby. They took the risk of having sex, and now they have to face the consequences. IT IS POSSIBLE TO MAINTAIN AN EDUCATION AND STILL HAVE A BABY. Difficult, but possible. Anyway, you are acting like an education is more important that another human life. Having a child doesn't have to ruin their life. Like I said there are programs everywhere as well as the choice to give your baby up for adoption.
It's important to look at the statistics though. In FCS we learned that about 1% of teens who become pregnant give their children up for adoption. Why do you think this is? Because mothers experience a bond with their child through pregnancy. So after nine months of living with a baby in your womb, most women find it difficult to part with the child. In this case, if the parent was a teen, they would have to face the troubling future of a teen mother. The outlooks are not good for teen mothers. You can't argue with statistics.
Also, you guys are saying that if someone made the choice to have unprotected sex, they should deal with the consequences of having a baby. The thing is though, a baby shouldn't be a "consequence". It shouldn't be a burden, or a punishment. A child should be something you have when you're ready, both emotionally, physically, and budget-wise.
Forcing mothers to accept their children just isn't right. The mother clearly made a mistake by having unprotected sex when she wasn't ready for a child. However, why should she have to live with the life-long punishment of a child? As I said before, children should never be punishments!
Sure, there may be clinics and help centers for parents who can't support a child with their money, but as I said before, it's important that the mother is emotionally ready as well. Money plays a major part in rising children, of course it does. But even the poorest of families can make it if they are wanted. Whether it's nice to hear or not, children come into this world and they just aren't wanted. Is it really fair to subject a child to such a life, as well as the mother? Can you really say that there are no instances when abortion is the best (or least worse) option?
P.S. There's a lot of argument about whether or not a baby is alive or human at the point of conception or whatever. Well, that's the main point this topic is even up for discussion. There isn't a definite answer. That's mostly up for opinion so....we might never know.....
(Remember, I'm talking about at the point of conception, not at the end of the full pregnancy)
Okay Roni, THE BABY/FETUS OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT(perhaps sack of guts) IS ALIVE. It's living. Stop saying "Fact." because you have no idea what you're talking about. Do you really think that there is just a lump of flesh and veins and goo inside a woman's womb, but right when she gives birth, it becomes a live baby?
Did you guys know that in 2003, 42 million babies were butchered in an abortion? 42 MILLION.
And Roni, even though you say that abortion should be available for rare cases, if it is legal, it won't just be used for that.
Common scenario: A woman had unprotected sex when she wasn't trying to get pregnant. I can't believe that one of her choices is to kill the baby that she is responsible for. Why should a human being who hasn't even had a chance to live, suffer because of his/her mother's mistake? It just doesn't seem right.
To me, abortion is hardly a solution to the "problem" of pregnancy. When a woman gets an abortion, do you really think she is all fine and dandy? The over whelming greif that women can feel it absoloutley excruciating. Roni, if abortion is so "dramatic," as you put it, why do you think it should be available? Putting women against their babies is horrible. And that's just what abortion does.
Hmm..."children come into this world that just aren't wanted", so we should kill 'em, right?
You're saying that child could grow up to a horrible life. OR we could murder them before it happens!
What's worse: a horrible life, or no life at all? OR, better yet, the baby could be adopted into a family that loves her.
Abortion is ridiculous! Why should killing babies be legal?
First of all, i'm sure there are women who suffer depression after getting an abortion, but to say that all of them do is an incorrect stereotype. Women also face depression when they give babies up for adoption, and have you ever heard of postpartum depression? It's depression immediately after pregnancy, because of the pregnancy. Clearly, any and all options can cause depression. It simply isn't a good argument for saying abortion is wrong.
Also, for those who say abortion is murder:
Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).
(I got that definition off of dictionary.com)
Basically, murder is killing a HUMAN with the intent of USUALLY causing pain, and resulting in death. When women have abortions, they aren't thinking "Hmm. Let's cause pain. Because I hate this baby and I want it DEAD."
There's no doubt that the women does want to terminate the pregnancy, but it's not so much because she wants THAT certain baby to be dead, or because she wants to kill the baby, but because she can't handle a child right now. Abortion and murder ARE different because they are two words with two definitions.
Abortion is killing. That's the purpose of it. But murder? No. it simply isn't murder.
P.S. Abortion does not "pin mothers against their children". No woman WANTS to be in a situation where she has to have an abortion. Thats important to make clear. But sometimes, that choice must be made.
oh p.p.s. the definition i had was the definiton of murder. thought i'd make that clear....
Strudel, I am glad that someone knows there facts. I don't know as much as you do on abortion. And skittles, you do not know what they are talking about eighther. You do not have any idea what a woman goes through when she gets pregnant un intetionaly. I could RUIN her life. She isn't thinking, "Oh crap, I am pregnant. Guess I'll get an abortion". A woman would go through more drama having to raise a baby that she does not want then getting an abortion. A lot of things that are dramatizing are legal. Putting a pet down for instance. Should people let the suffering pet live because it might have a chance of a "good life"? Did you know that daughters of mothers that dropped out of highschool are most likely to also drop out of high school? And lissen to Strudels points. They are good ones. I also don't appriciate you saying that I don't know what I am talking about.
Abortion IS murder. Your definition proves that, in fact. Under no part of that definition does it say that a person always kills with the intent of pain. It just states that murder is the deliberate or intentional killing of a human (by the way malice just means that they want to harm someone else, like the person having an abortion wants the baby, or fetus to die, which is harm). I'm sorry, but when a woman wants an abortion, she does want it to DIE. Why else would she be aborting it?
Yes, the woman can't handle a child right now, and chooses to abort it. No matter what her reason is, the fetus/baby/child WILL DIE. We know that the women don't want a human to die, but a human IS dying. You can say that you disagree with gossiping for example, but if you are still gossiping, then the harm is still done.
You keep mentioning about a woman keeping her baby and having it "ruin her life." Well, as I've said repeatedly, there is always ADOPTION. And I know that women risk growing attached to the baby in their womb, and finding that they can't part with it. That is a risk they have to take, because I'd rather a human life live than have it die because a woman thinks that she might "grow too attached to her baby."
Putting a pet to sleep cannot be related to abortion at all. The pet at least was given a chance to live. Aborted babies aren't given a chance at all. And yes it is traumatizing for women. I would be horrified if a woman could abort her baby without feeling any guilt at all.
Alexa, I agree with all of your statements. Roni, I apologize. I just feel very strongly that a living baby is the womb during pregnancy.
Did you know that abording unwanted children lowers child abuse rate? Children, should not have to be burdens. Woman should have children when they are ready. Giving birth is a beautiful thing. It should not be a bad expirience. If you say that there were 42 million babies were aborded in 2003, that could have been 42 million unwanted children in the world. Also, abortion keeps population down. If those 42 million babies where born, that would have added up to one sixth of Americas population.
I can give you the link to the site I got the data from if you want. Abording those babies is not just about population controll eighther. That was just an example. There is a big difference between abording children and murdering babies. The already alive baby has met people. Would you rather have your grandmother die or a non alive baby? Would you rather have your baby sister die or non born baby? If you would rather have the non born baby die, or your grandmother die, then that is pretty sad.
Abortion keeps child abuse down, the majority of unwanted children are abused. Since we have a way to not have un wanted children, then the numbers go down.
You can't understand what a woman might be going through when she decides to get an abortion. You have no right to take that right away from them.
Roni made a great point. Making abortion illegal will not stop abortion. It will simply make abortion illegal. Take prohibition for example. During the few years that it was in action, it may have somewhat decreased the amount of drinking, but it also created a lot of crime, and most people continued to drink. I am in no way comparing abortion to drinking alchohol, but it's just an example.
If abortion is illegal, there WILL still be women who seek it out by people who have littler or no medical licsense (not that you can have a little medical liscense but try to see my point here). Also, there will be little or no experiance. There's a greater chance for unsanitary conditions. The illegal abortions would probably be done in a "shady" part of town- not somewhere safe to be.
"Back alley" abortions, as they are called, would not only be dangerous to the baby, but also to the mother. So here's the choice. Kill the baby. Or kill the baby AND the mother.
Think this is all a big pile of what ifs? It isn't. Abortion once WAS illegal in the U.S. But people were still offering it.
My point is, making abortion illegal really won't stop abortion from happening. If anything, it's going to make it a lot more dangerous. Even potentially easier to recieve. After all, back alley abortions performed by amateurs would probably be a lot easier to come across, and much cheaper to operate, than an abortion done in a safe, healthy, sanitary hospital performed by a licensed doctor with state of the art equipment.
People murder. Murdering is illegal. People smoke pot. Smoking pot is illegal.
So, according to your logic, we should make all these things legal, because they're just going to happen anyway.
Back alley abortions happen today, all the time, even with abortion legal. When women can't come up with the money to get an abortion done by a prefessional, they go to these back alleys, knowing full well the heavy risks they take. These abortions are done by inexperienced people. Women die from these abortions.
Back alley abortions will be done whether or not abortion is illegal. And the huge difference between abortions being legal and illegal is the numbers. There will be a HUGE difference between the amount of abortions done when it is legal and when it is illegal. Most women will not take the risk of back alley abortions and will not get them done if abortion is illegal. They will have their children, and maybe put them up for adoption. Making abortions illegal will save many babies from dying. Women will die from these abortions either way.
I think, if (hopefully) we make abortion illegal, I hope we educate everyone about back alley abortions. Smart women won't take the risk if they know the dangers.
Is it so bad for us to want to save the baby's life? Women can make choices- illegal or legal, and they will face the consequences. But by making abortion illegal, we will drastically decrease the amount of abortions, saving babbies lives and maybe mothers who don't want to take the risk of back alley abortions.
By making murder and pot illegal, we are not making these things more dangerous so no, according to my logic, these things should NOT be made legal just because people do them anyway.
My point is, if abortion is illegal, the amount of people getting back alley abortions WILL GO UP. And when the number of back alley abortions go up, they WILL BE more dangerous to the mother. I think we can all agree here that if we had to choose between killing the child, or the mother and child, we would choose the first one.
And of COURSE it would be wonderful to be able to educate women about the dangers of back alley abortions. But you said so yourself, women are having back alley abortions even when abortion is legal, and they fully know the risks in doing so. If people are turning to back alley abortion even when abortion is legal, the number of back alley abortions will undoubtedly increase if abortion WAS illegal.
As I said before, I would love to be able to believe that we could educate every women about the dangers of back alley abortions, but how is that realistic? Have we persuaded women to wait to have sex until they're ready for children? No. Have we persuaded them to not have unprotected sex ESPECIALLY when they can't handle children? No.
Especially when most women who have unprotected sex, and in turn become pregnant, and in turn choose abortion are not the most educated women in the world. I'm not saying that abortion is a stupid choice. I'm saying unprotected sex when you can't have a child is a stupid choice.
Abortion should be legal it is not murder.
Abortion is definetly murder, and I fully agree with Becca that we need to educate women about having sex and abortion. "Have we persuaded women to wait to have sex until they're ready for children? No. Have we persuaded them to not have unprotected sex ESPECIALLY when they can't handle children? No." Those are the things that we need to educate women about. Those are the IMPORTANT things. If we can't get abortion to be illegal, we should at least teach women the right things to do. I personally do not believe that no one should have sex until they are married. I know that everybody doesn't believe that, but it would help so much if everyone did.
-Zoe
Abortion is not more dangerous when it is illegal! As I said, back alley abortions occur either way. While there is a chance that back alley abortions would increase, the general number of abortions would drastically decrease, and that is the point. It is a woman's responsibility to know that she shouldn't do illegal things, and if abortion is illegal, she should know not to do it, especially with all the dangers.
"I think we can all agree here that if we had to choose between killing the child, or the mother and child, we would choose the first one." Of course we would. We would also choose to kill no one at all, which is why we want to make abortions illegal. On a whole, more people would live if abortions were made illegal. We would save babies from being murdered, and some women from getting abortions at some risky places because they knew it was illegal. Also, women wouldn't be killed as much in abortions (which does happen) if it was illegal. If abortions were illegal, we wouldn't have to choose between the mother and the baby's life, because we have told America that we are not okay with either dying.
There is a difference between educating America about sex and about abortion. People want to have sex; being told about it and its consequences sometimes doesn't work because people want it so badly. Being told about the risks or dangers of back alley abortions would be different, because as you've said, women generally don't want to have abortions. And when they are MORE aware of the heavy risks involved, they are more likely to steer clear of back alley abortions.
And I'm sorry Zoe, but we are already "teaching people about the right things to do." Wait to have sex till your married is the concept taught in many schools. But the truth is, teenagers still have sex and get pregnant. But abortion is most certainly the wrong choice to make in this situation.
Alexa, first of all, black alley abortions are WAY more dangerous then regular abortions. Before abortions were legal, thousands of woman died in the United States each year from black alley abortions. If we were to make abortions illegal, the same thing would happen. Black alley abortion rates WILL go up if we make abortion illegal. Then the mother could also be at risk for dying. Making abortion illegal will not stop abortion. It will simply become dangerous to have an abortion for the mother and fetus. Zoe there is no way in hell that we are going to convice everyone to have sex after marrige.
God created that baby before it had developed, he was planning it's beautiful life and accomplishments. The baby IS alive.
Abortion is murder HOWEVER YOU PUT IT.
And the baby's life should be put in front of the mother's, thats for sure. If I was going to have a baby, and I had to choose myself to die or the baby, I would choose myself to die to let the baby live. No one should decide who has the choice to live.
So no matter how you put it, and whenever you do do it- it will always be murder, and always be wrong.
Anonymous, your opinon on how God created life for the baby is an opinon. You can't debate are facts with your opinons. You might put your life before a fetus, but not all the woman in the world would do so. You should not be able to take rights away from people because you think it is against God.
Um, "Christianchild," debating is ALL about opinions! Like what you said was all opinions.
And I think that anonymous might be saying that she thinks that we should make abortion illegal because it is murder. Which I 100% agree with. I think that we should take away the right to abortion from people the same as we've taken the "right" to murder away. Because, as I've said about the definition Strudel gave me, the definition of murder exactly fits what abortion is.
I think that abortion should be legally open to all women for many reasons. There are many women that whom this option should definitely be open to. For example women who have been raped, but also young teens who are not yet mature enough to bring up a child. I know many pro-lifers would say just put the baby up for adoption, but some parents would throw their teenagers out onto the street or abuse them if they knew that their child had gotten pregnant. Another reason for abortion to be legal is that sometimes things go wrong with a baby that can't be fixed. For instance if the woman is pregnant with sextuplets, the tuplets, when born will either die or have severe health problems that will last the rest of their lives. Even if you are against abortion you should not be able to deny the women in these situations the choice of abortion. You may think that it should only be an option to those who are raped. There are two problems with this. One is how are they going to prove they have been raped? And others could pretend they have been raped. The other problem is that it wouldn't be fair to only let certain women have that choice and others not. Be it right or wrong, it still should be their decision. Many people make bad choices and others good, I beleive that those choices MUST remain their choices. If they want to "murder" their baby then they should have the right to do so. Having an abortion doesn't let the woman off the hook, they often suffer from emotional problems afterwards. I can just hear all the people against abortion saying that if they suffer from emotional issues aftewards then that is proof it should be illegal. But it isn't because that was her CHOICE, so she will suffer the consequences from that choice and hopefully gain wisdom from the experiece. It will also hopefully make her more cautious in the future. The only way we can learn is from our own experiences.
So, you believe that it is a woman's choice to murder her child. If we are normally against murdering human beings, it being ILLEGAL, than why are we okay with women murdering their children? We can say that it is a choice, which is why many pro-choicers say that they are against abortion, but for the right to choose, but still everything in this world is a choice. Mudering, for instance, and kidnapping, and robbery are all choices. However, muderers and kidnappers and robbers are still doing things that are illegal and may end up in jail for it. Also, people like to say that a woman should have the right to her own body. Well, if she has the right to her own body, why does she get in trouble for punching something to their death, for example? She is using her own body in a choice that she made. Still, we say that that is illegal. After all this, the idea of abortion being a "choice" truly isn't important. People make choices all the time, but we still don't allow some of them to be legal. Why? Because it is wrong to do these things. It is wrong to murder.
I just don't believe in the government controlling a woman's body. The fact is, she DOES have a right to her body. And in the very beginning of pregnancy, the baby is hardly human. It's more a lump of cells. It's part of the woman. After all, cancer is part of a person when someone has it. But nobody is against the killing of cancer. But cancer is living breathing cells. They are part of a person. Don't they have a reason to live?
No i am not comparing babies to cancer. I realize that they are entirely different. My point is, the baby is still part of the woman until it is born. Therefore, it is the woman and her body and she deserves the right to make a choice as to what she wants to do with it.
And anonymous, when you said that you would put your baby's life before your own, i think that's very noble of you. However, I simply don't think that i could do that. Does that make me a bad person? No. But do we really know what we would do in such a situation unless we were in that situation? It's easy to say now, becaues you don't really have to make that choice.
Personally, I think that the woman's life should always come before the child's. She has more life in her. She already has a family and people who love her, and a life. It's simply my opinion, and i realize that many people would disagree, but i think that the woman's life should be placed before the baby's in every circumstance.
I believe that abortion is murder. In my recent research, I have found that abortions take place within the first trimester, which is when the baby is able to sense it's surroundings and feel pain and sensation. So when you are sucking out the baby through a straw, it is hurting, BADLY!!! Look it up murderers!!! If you don't want a baby, keep it in your pants. You won't need an abortion if you don't play "under the blanket". Watch a movie, don't fornicate. The way they kill the baby, is by literally sucking it out, through a hose. Why, would you ever do that. Ever heard of adoption, no? It's around!!!!!! And you could get money for giving away your baby. Just because you don't want it, doesn't mean other people won't. Ever see Juno?? GOOD MOVIE...help someone who can't get pregnant and donate yours. Thank you and good night!!!
Well, Alexa is it?? Alexa hum? I looked up on the interne thtat your name means defender of all mankind. Ha!! Whata bunch of baloney... my name means stay fly ah aha ah ah aha ahaha . So there!! Defend that!!!!
Okay. I'm officially creeped out. Why did you look up my name? Yeah, that's weird...
Well "defender of mankind" j/k. I thought your name was unique, so i took the liberty of looking it up because I am pregnant and needed a cool baby name. So, now I will keep looking. Jerk.
Hello again, fellow debators. And may I just say Alexa, you sound like a very rude person. Stay fly hahahaha simply liked your name and was curious to its meaning. How dare you call her out on her intentions. Any way, I see that no one has responded to my abortions opinion. I would really like to hear your fellow imputs. Except yours Alexa, because I can see that you are very quick to anger and I don't wish to fight with you....
Dear Sandie, you are very rude. So what if Alexa is a mean person. Maybe she likes being mean. ( I got your back Alexa) ;)
Alexa is very far from being a mean or rude person. She's nice. stay fly ahaha or whatever, I would be creeped out if anyone looked up my name. I'd be scared if Alexa wasn't creeped out by you searching her name. Oh and you seem a bit rude yourself. You said a bunch of random stuff, then you wanted us to "defend that"! What are we supposed to defend.
Sandie, everyone has a right to debate. You have the right to say that you don't want to hear Alexa's opinions, but that's not going to stop her from replying. The only reason Alexa may be quick to anger is because this is something she believes is wrong and she wan't so defend that.
-Zoe
Ummmm....its actually really okay. Thanks for the defense Zoe. :) Its whatev.
If Sandie Dawson and "Peppah Shakah" want to judge me without knowing me, its their deal. I'm sure that they're not perfect either. In fact, "Peppah Shakah" won't even use their real name to insult me. Hmmm...
Burn!
Um I'd like to discuss what this post was initially for. I agree with Sandie Dawson's first comment, and I like how she put it in such blunt terms.
And I have seen Juno. It wouldn't be much of a movie if she had gotten an abortion though...On the contrary, it was a brilliant movie and I recomend it for everyone.
Anyway, there are a lot of new people commenting. Are you gonna add them to the members Zoe?
Well, I would firstly like to thank skittles for appreciating the way I speak in such blunt terms. Thank you skittles!!! Also I would like to ssuggest a new debate topic for this week "What defines a Christian" i think that it would get many responses and opinions and I would love to hear people's feedback. I am highly religious and hope everyone else is too.
That's great Sandie. You can email me any debate topic ideas at whyilovejesusblog@yahoo.com cause otherwise I'll forget the debate topic... haha. Steph, Don't say "burn" anymore. It's just immature. Please don't say that, it's stupid. And to answer your question steph, I will add them as members if they comment on 3 different posts.
-Zoe
I agree with Sandie, i think that religion would make a great topic for a debate next week. Thank you Sandie for showing this website to me. It's great!!
Hey Sandie! Guess what? I don't like you! Oh and guess what? When you abord a fetus, it doesn't feel a thing! Get your info strait. Hate to break it to you, but I am NOT extreamly religious. I have better things to do than worshiping some guy that I have no relyable information on. The dudes who wrote the bible where Jesus's fan club presidents. So the truth could have been slated. A lot.
People have been debating about whether aborted babies feel pain or not for a while now. There is no definite answers on it. However, I tend to believe that it can feel pain, which is absolutely heartbreaking to me.
Oh, and I never realized that "fan club presidents" were the same as friends. The disciples were Jesus's FRIENDS. It's your choice not to believe in him.
Hey atheist, I don't know how old you are but i'm sure it isn't more than 12. You see I know that because your knowledge of abortions are serious confused. When a baby is aborted it is in its first trimester when the baby can sense it's surroundings. I bet that means pain. And believeing in somethig means that you don't need information on it, you believe because you can. Just because you don't worship God don't have a shit fit at people who do okay? This is America, everyone can believe what they want, so get with the program or move!!
Oh, and I don't judge Jesus from what it says in the bible. I don't even use the bible...
Peppah shaka. You say that a baby is aware of its surroundings in the first trimester. However, what does that even mean? It's true that babies develop pain sensors early in the pregnancy. But it takes a lot more than pain sensors to be able to feel pain. Just read this:
Many pro-life groups emphasize that the embryo develops pain sensors about seven weeks after conception. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, they often do not explain the full picture. Many people without medical training naturally assume that the presence of these sensors will enable the embryo to feel pain. However, sensing of pain requires a complete system, including:
bullet Pain sensors to sense the pain,
bullet Nerve pathways to convey pain signals from the sensors, up the spine, and into the brain, and
bullet The existence of higher brain functions to convert those signals into feelings of pain.
Since the full system is not present until after the embryo becomes a fetus, it can be safely concluded that human embryos cannot feel pain.
source: http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_pain.htm
It also says that babies are classified as embryos up until 91 days of being in the womb. All medical research points to the fact that embryos cannot feel pain. However, poorly researched pro-life articles are assuring already stressed out mothers that their babies will go through agonizing pain if they have an abortion. Is it so much to ask that before someone tries to release medical information to sway the public's opinion, they at least research their facts well?
If you go to religioustolerance.org they have a lot of unbiased information on all sorts of hot topics, including abortion. Its really factual and interesting. I would love to list some more of its arguments, however, i have to eat. I shall discuss this later!
Okay, since I admire your research Strudel, i will let that go. But the woman haveing the abortion done to her can feel extremely horrid pain. I watched a recent documentary on abortions and foud that for the woman the pain is almost scarring. The pain in no way is as intense as an entire pregnancy process. So why not just have the baby?? And donate it to someone who is fetile?
I've done some research on fetus pain, and I've discovered that nobody can truly know if a fetus feels pain when it is aborted. NO ONE. We cannot ask the baby if it feels pain, can we? So, we cannot say either way. Different sources come up with different opinions, but no one can come up with a definite answer. If you read most articles, they tend to say "likely" and "probably". Because the truth is that nobody knows for certain. You cannot claim that the fetus doesn't feel pain, because you cannot know what exactly the baby is feeling when it is murdered.
"Poorly researched pro-life articles". Doctors that look into this kind of stuff believe that fetuses DO feel pain. I'm sure there are false articles on both sides of the debate. However, just because they don't agree with you doesn't make them poorly researched.
I would put my childs life before mine. I would not do the same with a fetus.
But your fetus would eventually become a child.
Would you put your life before a fetus?
Just as a caterpillar is different from a butterfly, a fetus is different from a child. You're right. It will eventually become your child. But children will eventually become adults as well. Does that mean we should just pretend that they already are?
I mean, if you really wanna go there, the fetus is going to eventually become a child, then adult, then elderly, and then it'll EVENTUALLY die anyway so.....
ANYWAY I agree with maria. I think that I would probably put my child's life before my own, but I just couldn't do it for a fetus. That's not the same as having an abortion though. Please don't make it out that way.
So, since children aren't already adults, it is okay to kill them? Is it okay because there is a couple months, or years difference? Because that is all there is between a fetus and a baby (although I believe that they are one and the same anyway...). Just because it is still in the womb doesn't make murdering it okay! According to this logic, it should be okay to murder a child because it isn't an adult. Which doesn't make any sense.
So, because the fetus will eventually die anyway, let's just kill it now? I don't understand that all. There is a whole entire life in between! An abortion doesn't allow that baby (or fetus) to have a chance at living. And the time given to live is the only difference between children and adults, fetuses and out-of-the-womb babies.
We're all going to die eventually. So does that mean that you would have rather not have lived at all? Because that is what is happening to all the aborted babies out there.
No the point i was trying to make was when steph said that a fetus will eventually become your child, and i said well thats true but a child will also eventually die anyway so its ALL gonna happen anyway, but you can't really think of it as "happening anyway".
that probably doesn't make any sense.... but umm....yeah....
Alex, do you eat meat?
Umm...it's Alexa and yes I eat meat. I'm not sure how this is relevant, though? Unless your trying to compare babies and humans to animals.
So I was skimming through some stuff on this art website I like, and I came across this one on abortion. It is extremely devistating and depressing, but expresses so much on how I feel about abortion.
http://illusi0nz.deviantart.com/art/Abortion-6702931
Stop trying to guilt us into agreeing with you.
I'm seriously not! I'm so sorry if you felt that way. I just wanted to share that because it explains some of my opinions that words cannot. I really apologize if you feel that way, but I'd rather have you disagree with me than agree with me because you feel guilty.
You shouldn't have to apologize Skittles. This picture depicts the truth of what is happening. Guilt has nothing to do with this at all. Just because you don't like the picture, anonymous, doesn't mean that it isn't true.
You can't ignore the truth. Look at the picture and tell me that that isn't a baby. This is death. This is murder. This isn't right.
First of all, when you abord, the baby is NOT that developed! You can only abord about 20 days after pregnancy. The fetus is a blob of jelly.
That is incorrect. You can get abortions for months after. The farther along you are, the less amount of doctors that will perform the abortions. But they do happen! That picture shows a real aborted baby. That is the result of a saline abortion, which is a method that poisons the baby to death.
That really happened. That is what the baby looks like after the saline abortion. You can abort that late. It is terrible, but it is the truth. Can you honestly tell me that you agree with that?
Anonymous, what is your problem? In a debate, which I thought was what this website was about...is when you try to sway people's opinions. Just like skittles was trying to do. She was a very good debatorer in showing that picture to you. If you could look at that picture and not feel like a total jerk for supporting abortions, then maybe you should seriously think about what kind of person you are. A baby, no matter at what stage, should never be referred to as a blob of jelly, However, a person who has no concern for the well being of others is a total blob of jelly. So I hate to let you know, but you anonymous are the blob of jelly!
I think that you should not be allowed to controll what a woman has in her body. It is a part of her, so she should be in charge of it. I personally am against abortion. But I do not want to take the right away from those who disagree with me.
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