Hey! It's Saturday. I have definitions for you guys!
Jerusalem: Ancient city in Palestine, the religious and political center of the Jewish people, situated on the crest of a chain of mountains that cross Palestine from north to south. Originally called Salem, it was the capital of King Melchizedek about 2100 B.C. (Genesis 14). First mentioned in the Book of Joshua (10, 15), the inhabitants were known as Jebusites. When the Promised Land was parceled out, Jerusalem was assigned to the tribe of Benjamin. Its most famous rulers were King David, who brought the Ark of the Covenant into the city, and his son Solomon, who built the first Temple. A second Temple was built in the sixth century B.C., and the third (and last) was the work of Herod the Great, who ruled as a vassal of Rome from 37 to 4 B.C. The Christian history of Jerusalem begins with the short ministry of the Savior, culminating in his death, resurrection, and ascension. The Apostles lived and taught there for some time after Pentecost, and met in Jerusalem for their first council about A.D. 49. The Apostle St. James the Less was the first Bishop of Jerusalem, where he was condemned by the Sanhedrin and martyred in A.D. 62.
Israel: The name given to Jacob by an angel at the Jabbok ford. He was on a journey to hold a reunion with his estranged brother, Esau. During the night a stranger wrestled with him till daybreak and then said to him, "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because have been strong against God." Was the stranger an angel? Jacob himself thought it was God. He named the place Peniel "because I have seen God face to face and I have survived" (Genesis 32:25-32). Later in Genesis, God appeared to Jacob once again and repeated the statement, "Your name is Jacob, but from now on, you shall be named not Jacob but Israel" (Genesis 35:9-10). This was enough in itself to show the unique niche he occupies in Jewish history: he is the personification of the nation of Israel.
Galilee: Of the three provinces that made up Palestine (Galilee, Samaria, Judaea) Galilee was the one farthest north. Approximately fifteen hundred square miles in area, it had both fertile plains and rugged mountains (Luke 4:16). Jesus grew up in Galilee, in a small village in the southern part, and most of the Apostles were Galileans (Matthew 4:18; Acts 1:11). He did much of his preaching there and many of his miracles were performed in Galilee (Matthew 4:23). (Etym. Latin galilaea; from Greek galilaia, from Hebrew galil, circle, district.)
Okay... I have another question for you that kind of has to do with Easter.
In church, on Good Friday, the church comes together and has a special mass. In that mass, we say a prayer that says that we pray that Jews will come to their right of mind and find the Lord Jesus Christ. A Jew was against this statement and had the Pope change it. I still say it at my church but the Pope doesn't. Do you think that the Jew should have intervened in the Pope's and all Christians' prayers? After all, the Christians, including me, were praying for the Jews and I don't think that anyone should deny prayers that they are receiving. What do you think?
God Bless,
Zoe
DO YOU REALLY LOVE JESUS CHRIST???
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90 comments:
Here's the link to the story of the Pope changing the prayer:
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=56427
And just to let you know, CWNews is Catholic World News not CW like the tv channel!
-Zoe
I agree that you should not deny prayers that you are recieving to an extent. I think the Jew had a right to protest against such a prayer being said. If you are praying for someone to change who they are, I think that's wrong because everyone has the right to be who they want to be. On the other hand if you were praying for someone who is sick to get better or praying for someone who has lost a loved one, I think that the person recieving that prayer should not protest it.
I actually find that pretty insulting that you pray for Jews to come to "the right of mind" and find Jesus. Please, I'm in my "right of mind". I don't need another religion praying for me to come to my senses and join their religion. I'm a Jew for a reason.
Anyway, praying for someone of another religion who is sick is one thing. But praying for them to come to their senses and realize that your religion is right is another thing.
I actually have a question
Would you force convert me if you could zoe? If you could convert every jew on the planet to christianity, would you?
I haven't been to the Good Friday Mass in a while, but I'm shocked that our church would say that! It sounds extremely condescending. Our religion, and usually religions in general, are supposed to be very tolerant of other people and other religions. I do not agree with this at all. We can't say what religion is right and what religion is wrong. We all could be wrong. I think it is very condescending, ignorant, and intolerant to say that. Religion is all about personal beliefs. Just because someone doesn't have the same personal beliefs doesn't make them "wrong" and us "right."
I agree completley.
Kartik, If Jews can object to them being prayed for, Athiests should also be allowed to object to prayers. If an Athiest was sick, I would pray for them, and they should be allowed to object that prayer, even though God will still listen to our prayers.
Becca, I understand that you take offense to this being said, but did you look at the article? All the Pope changed was the different words that he used to say the same thing. He didn't change what it meant at all. And what do you mean by "force convert"? I don't think I would forcibly convert you. I would pray for you that God would change you yourself. I don't think I would do anything but pray for you or any other Jews.
Alexa, when you say that Christians and other religions are tolerant to other religions, I don't think that you understand it. We are tolerant of the Jews and the other religions. We are just praying that they will understand us and find Jesus. I believe that Jesus is very important in Christians' lives and I hope that Jews will find Jesus.
Kartik, thanks for joining us. You will now be added to the members list! :)
-Zoe
The thing is though, Jews are aware of Jesus, and we dont believe in him the way you do, hence the different religions. Please dont pray for me, i'm happy the way I am. And any other jew would feel the same way. If someone is interested in converting to another religion, they'll do it themselves. We dont need someone to pray that we will "come to our senses".
I find it terribly offensive that you find the need to pray for jews. I don't think any of them are worried that their religion is wrong, otherwise they would have changed it. If you can find one jew who wants you to pray for them in hopes that they will find jesus, then you go right ahead and do it. But theres no sense in wasting your breath for us when we dont want you to pray for such a thing for us. Perhaps you should take that into consideration next time its time to say that prayer. But please dont pray for me to find jesus. Im content with the way I am, thank you very much.
I don't care that you are "content the way you are". I'm still going to pray for you and all the people that don't believe or follow Jesus that they will find him and for all the people that do that they will stay with Jesus. I'm not wasting my breath, I'm praying for you. I think that God would be very disappointed if he realized that you didn't want the prayers that some people were giving. I really don't care that you are offended that I feel I need to pray for Jews. It's not just Jews, I pray for everyone that doesn't know Jesus. You don't need to want the prayer to receive it! You're still going to get that prayer from God even if you don't want it! If you're content, go ahead, be content, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm always going to pray for you, and all the people of other religions.
-Zoe
You didn't say that we're praying for Jews to "understand us" but that they will believe in what we believe in, hence saying that their beliefs are incorrect. Tolerance is about accepting someone else's beliefs. If you are praying that they change their beliefs, you are not accepting their beliefs. Thus, it is intolerance. While Jesus may be an important figure to us Catholics, it isn't to the Jewish religion. It is unfair and intolerant to pray for them to change their beliefs. Think about it this way: If, at a synagogue, they were praying for Catholics to "come to their senses" and believe in what's "right," how would you feel? I personally, would feel insulted and feel like they were looking down on me.
If someone at the synagogue were praying for me, I would definatly accept those prayers. Even if they were saying that I should change my beliefs, I would still think that was okay. I really wouldn't be insulted that people thought that my beliefs were wrong. I may think that their beliefs are wrong, and they can think that what I believe is wrong. I just don't think that it's right for someone of another religion to interfere in our prayers.
-Zoe
I wasn't saying that if you are being prayed for because you are sick that you CAN'T to object, I was just saying that the person shouldn't object because there is no reason to object to such a prayer. Religions, though tolerant (for the most part) of eachother, have friction between them and refusing such a prayer could cause unneccesary tension. It is completly wrong to try to change someone. People are born the way they are and no one should ever try to change that. Praying such prayers could create pointless tension between your religion and the Jewish religion. It is hateful to not respect people for who they are. In a way you could say you are playing the role of god. You are trying to change who it made them, which could be called defying god.
I think that it is really bad that you think I am trying to act as God. God is an amazing power in the world and I could never ever ever try and pretend to be Him. When you say who "it" made them, what do you mean? Are you calling God an it? because that is sooooo wrong. God is amazing, he couldn't be brought down to be called something as "small" as an it. And I'm not defying God. I am trying to help other people understand God and see the truth in him and his beloved son, Jesus Christ. I am certainly not hating Jews, I don't hate anyone. I just don't agree with their beliefs. And I'm not going to try and change them. All I can do is pray that they, as the prayer put it, "come to their senses." I don't care about religious tension. I care about what I believe.
Maybe you should care about religious tension zoe, especially when what you say is incredibly insulting. I have every right to refuse your prayers, and I'm doing so right now. When you say that you pray for jews to "come to their senses" its like you're saying we're foolish in our beliefs and we need to get a clue. You are clearly not tolerant or respectful if you are wishing for jews to change their opinions.
In a way, you are saying you wish there were no jews in the world, because you wish they could all just stop being so gosh darn STUPID and accept jesus christ as their savior. It's extremely biggoted to say such a thing, not to mention incredibly rude and belittling.
You are pretty much saying that the only rational belief in this world is the belief that jesus is the savior and lord, and thats not true. While that may be your religion, it doesnt mean that every other religion doesnt make any sense.
When you pray for jews to "come to their senses" it is a nice way of hoping that all the jews, and everyone else from any other religion, will convert to yours. You are praying for a world without diversity and without differing opinions. It is a nice way of praying for the annihilation of the jewish people.
I just want to say that a lot of people have tried to do that in the past, and it hasn't worked yet. Praying for people to think the same thing as you is wrong. You don't care about religious tension? I don't care about your motives. DON'T pray for me to change my beliefs. Although thankfully, doing so won't change anything.
Zoe, you need to loosen up a little! You are putting to much faith into someone you never met (as in Jesus). The bible could have been written by some creep for all we know. Your belifes are not the "correct" belifes. Everyone can belive what they want. You don't have to "fix" people! If anyone needs fixing, it is people who feel they need to fix people because of there belifes! I am deeply insulted that you think that Jews are "off the right track". I personly think that the Catholics are SOMETIMES forgetting what there Jesus is truely about. Jesus wouldn't want people to not be able to get married because of there sexual oriantation. Instead the Catholics are spending there time trying to force opinons on people.
Becca, you always say you have the right to refuse my prayers. I don't think God will let you refuse prayers. Anyway, you can't tell me what to do. I'm always going to pray that Jews will find Jesus because that is what I think is right. It doesn't matter to me what you think! I don't care about what you say about my prayers or Jesus or God, because I believe in them. I will ALWAYS back them up. There won't be a time when I won't defend God or Jesus, so it would be better if you just stopped critisizing me and my beliefs because when people critisize things, it just means that they want those people to change because they have stronger beliefs. I don't critisize your beliefs because God will take care of everything. I'm just going to leave it at that because I don't feel like arguing over something I greatly believe in because I know God is right.
-Zoe
Ouch. Zoe just lost.
anonymous, the Bible says that "Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed." John 20:29B I believe in Him because I know Jesus is right. We were just talking about how amazing Jesus is in church and it's soooo cool! I know, there are a ton of Catholics that try to force things on people and they forget what Jesus is about. I'm not one of those Catholics. I always turn to God. I don't want to "fix" people, I just pray for them. The Bible was definatly not written by "creeps"! God told his story through the disciples and people that he trusted. Just look at the story of Noah and his ark. The world was a horrible place, so God flooded the land for 40 days and 40 nights, but he told Noah to build an ark and take the animals and his family on it. That's why God is so amazing.
-Zoe
What do you mean Zoe lost?
God got pissy and flooded the world and killed everyone. Then he said, "My bad, won't do it again" and everyone forgave him. Did this ever occur to you? The only people who were left to forgive him were the ones he spared. Hmmmm...... convenient. That is definatly someone I will dedicate my life to. We have no way of knowing who wrote the bible. How do we know it wasn't made up?
God did what he did with Noah and the Ark because his world was turning into hell. It was becoming a horrible place and he didn't want his people to have to live there. He wanted to start over new. The Bible wasn't made up, just like the Qu'ran wasn't made up and the Jewish Bible wasn't made up (sorry i dunno what the Jewish book is called).
-Zoe
Then why did she ask for forgivness afterword if what she did was right?
what are you talking about anonymous?
Okay, Zoe. Noah's Ark didn't really happen. It's just a story. Just a story to illustrate a point. Most of the stuff in the bible is stories. Metaphorical stories, of course. A man didn't live inside a whale, no one parted the water, and I don't think God would ever kill all the people on Earth.
Some of the things the Catholic church belives don't seem very big hearted to me at all. Such as praying for people who believe in their religion with all their heart to give up and join our side.
And you said that God won't let you refuse prayers. God IS amazing, but he will only do things that are right. Just because you pray to God for something to happen, doesn't mean that He will grant that to you. God doesn't hand out favors. God listens to prayers and helps people in need. I also don't think He cares if you are a homosexual either. God is about love, not about forcing people to convert to other religions. Some of the things you say are not very Christian at all (in my opinion), because Christianity is about love and equality and praising Jesus. That doesn't mean that all people who don't believe that are wrong. If you want to be like Jesus, you have to heal and help people who need it - despite their religion. For you to think less of people who are not the same religion as you, or to think they are wrong - which I know you do - is ridiculous and not helpful at all. Acceptance and kindness are key, and I don't think you demonstrate either one on this matter.
Also, Hell is a place for extreme sinners. Becca is not going to Hell because she is Jewish. It's offensive, rude, selfish and stuck-up to think that. Becca is a loving and caring person who shows qualities of a respectful and kind individual. She doesn't pray for you to join her religion because she accepts the fact that your beliefs are different from hers. Kudos to you, Becca.
You can pray for whoever you want, I'm not saying that you can't, but people have the right to believe what they want to believe and you cannot take that away from them.
P.S. Anonymous, Zoe didn't loose. Let's be mature here.
God asked for forgivness after the noahs ark thing. If he thought what he did was right, then why did he do that?
P.S. When I said "she" I ment God. It is anoying how everyone calls God Him.
There are two different anonymouses here. I was the one that said Zoe lost.
STEPH OMG. I really can't believe it. You're saying that the "stories" in the Bible never happened. I wasn't there, but I'm pretty sure all that happened. Moses couldn't part the water alone, he had the help of God. I don't look down on people because of their religion, I just don't agree with them! I didn't say that God will grant all your prayers, I said that He will always listen and I know He will do what is right. I do think that some things people believe are wrong, and I'm fine with that; I'm very sorry you aren't alright with that. You're saying I'm not acting very Catholic, but how can you say that when you hardly go to church or don't care about really important things. You just said that you think the Bible is fake. Don't say that that isn't what you're saying, because I know it is. I really love how you call me nonacceptant and not kind. You know me! When you said that you said something about that "on this matter." What is "this matter?" Just curious.
I never said that Becca was going to Hell. If I did, quote me, cause I definatly didn't. When you say "Becca is a loving and caring person who shows qualities of a respectful and kind individual," you say it like she's the perfect person. You are being totally rude. You see what Becca says sometimes. She isn't always a kind "individual" and you're saying that but you are calling me "offensive, rude, selfish and stuck-up!" I really think that you are someone that needs to be more respectful.
Becca, sorry to say all that bout you, I didn't mean to slam you or anything, it's just the truth. I know I'm mean and stuff so don't just say that I'm stuff like that.
If I haven't addressed something, just post it!
-Zoe
I agree with Steph (Skittles). The thing about praying is that God can't affect people's choices. He gave us the freedom to make our own choices, and he can't change or affect people's minds and choices. Think about it this way: two teams are playing against eachother in soccer. A member of one team prays to God to help them win the game. Then, a member of the opposite team prays to God for the same thing -- to win the game. Both teams can't win, correct? It all comes down to people's choices. People sometimes lose faith in believing in God, because their prayers don't come true. Well, again, God doesn't deal with individual choices, which is why a lot of prayers don't come true. God doesn't refuse prayers, but he doesn't change people's minds. He left us on the earth to make personal decisions. We can ask him for help and guidance, but I believe only certain prayers can ever be granted. If you ask for bravery, or healing-- stuff that doesn't affect other people and choices, then it will probably come true. But praying for people to "come to their senses" is not what God deals with and can even change if he wanted to.
God knew that He had to flood the world to get rid of the evil in the world. He asked for forgiveness because he needed to know that His people forgave him.
-Zoe
I just have one question for you zoe. Please answer it. If you could rid the world of jews, would you? I don't mean kill them. But if you could make everyone follow the christian/catholic religion, would you? Be honest.
Alexa, God can change the things He wants to. He will either grant the prayer or not. I hate when people lose faith because one prayer didn't come true. In the last sentence, you said "But praying for people to 'come to their senses' is not what God deals with and can even change if he wanted to." God can change anything. It kinda seems like you don't believe that. He could have everyone become a Jew or a Muslim if he wanted to, but he wants there to be different people in the world. If he wanted everyone to be one religion, it would of already happened by now.
-Zoe
Okay, just because Steph and I don't go to church as much anymore, doesn't mean that we're bad Catholics and don't understand our religion. I also don't believe that everything in the Bible actually happened. We don't think that the Bible is "fake" at all! We simply believe that some of the stuff written in the Bible is more like metaphorical stories. They were made to get a message across, and the best way was through an elaborate story. I still believe in God and all the disciples, and I believe that a lot of the stuff in the Bible actually happened. However, some of the points that the disciples wanted to convey were better made through metaphorical stories. Noah's Ark is just one example. We still believe in the Bible and everything it stands for, including all its messages. We simply believe that is shouldn't always be taken literally.
Becca, I really don't know. I don't think that I would make all the Jews "disappear"! We need to have different religions in the world, so I really wouldn't. I don't think that having different religions is making this world a bad place, it's the people, of whatever religion, that are causing the fighting, not because of their religions, but because of their opinions.
-Zoe
You're right Zoe. I don't believe it. The main reason God created Earth was the freedom to make our own choices. God cannot interfere with our choices, and I firmly believe that. If God can, why has he let murderers run around and kill everyone?
Alexa, I would prefer it if you would only speak for yourself. It's not that I'm saying that that isn't what Steph believes, it's just that I'd like to hear it from her! :) How do you differentiate the stories that you believe and the ones that you don't? Do you believe that Jesus could walk on water? Do you think that the story about Jesus turning a couple of loaves of bread and water into a feast and wine? Just wondering!
-Zoe
Zoe, you are brainwashed. You are rude and biest. Just because someone doesn't go to church, doesn't make them a bad Christan. You are a controlling Catholic and are closed minded. Steph is right. If God made all those things happen now, why aren't they still happening? If you don't lisen to me, then that makes you close minded. Get some different opinons flowing through you. How cold you say those rude things!? I could scream! It just wants to make me cry! Just bcause the bible says something doesn't make it true! Delete this if you want. As long as I know you read this, I don't care! As long as you know that this is what I think. It is accurated and true. If you don't belive me, then that is proof you SHUN different opinons!
First of all zoe, i like when you said that im not a caring "individual" and you put individual in quotations. Are you trying to say im more than one person? Perhaps you meant to put caring in quotations? And im not exactly sure what point you were trying to make. Steph didnt say that im perfect. I've said stupid things. I acknowledge that up front. That doesnt mean im not a good person. In fact, I think most of the things i've said that are "stupid" were probably said due to provoking from you.
And you have no right to tell steph what she believs. You told her that she thinks the bible is fake, but never once did she say that. Are you saying she's a bad catholic because she doesn't take the bible literally and word for word? You are in no position to decide who is or isn't a good or bad catholic.
And you said that if God wanted everyone to be of the same religion, he would have made it that way. Well if God wanted jews to accept jesus as their savior, there wouldn't be a jewish religion, would there? Obviously, God wants there to be a jewish religion. So why are you praying for there to no longer be a jewish religion? Don't say thats not what you're praying for. By praying for jews to accept jesus, you are essentially praying for jews to change their religion. That is praying for there to longer be a jewish religion. I take extreme offense to that.
anonymous, i read your comment. you say that if i don't believe you, i shun opinions. That's not true. I don't have to believe what you say to listen to your opinion.
Thanks for these amazing compliments, though: "Zoe, you are brainwashed. You are rude and biest. Just because someone doesn't go to church, doesn't make them a bad Christan. You are a controlling Catholic and are closed minded."
What do you mean by this question? "If God made all those things happen now, why aren't they still happening?" What things are you talking about? If you specify I would be glad to answer.
I wouldn't delete a comment because the person writing it's opinion is different from my own.
I don't believe what you say but it doesn't mean that I shun your opinions! I can't believe you would say something so untrue.
By the way, I believe that the Bible is true. You can say whatever you want, but you aren't going to change my opinion on the Bible. And don't call me closeminded because I said that.
-Zoe
Becca, I'm just going to ignore about what you said about you saying stupid things because I provoke you. I really don't care, so whatever.
The whole Steph thing. I didn't tell her what she believes. She implied that she thought the Bible was fake. I just stated it in a plainer form. I also didn't say that I decide who is a good or bad Catholic, that is just the same as putting words in my mouth. I never said anything like that.
The only thing I am praying for is that you guys find what I think you should be believing in. If God doesn't want that to happen, he won't grant that prayer, but he'll still listen. Maybe God will change. Maybe the people of Earth will become one group of one religion that believe all the same things, but I don't think so, because God made us to be different. I'm not going to change what I said so you can continue taking offense to that, and I'm sorry, but my opinion isn't changing because you or anybody else is offended.
Here's this little thing I heard about. I heard that a Catholic lady at my church had a dream that Jesus Christ, my Savior, came back to Earth for a second time, just as God had promised. And before the end of the Earth came, all the life would freeze, so everyone would see our souls. This lady said that as a warning for the end of the earth, Jews realized they were wrong, and many Catholics left the religion because they were scared. In the end, Jesus came and saved those that still followed him. They went directly to Heaven. The other good people went to Pregatory, but some still went to Hell.
I also have a question. If you believe that your savior hasn't come yet, do you think that you are going to Hell? because according to what I know, the original sin of Adam and Eve hasn't been removed, so no one can go to heaven. So do you think that Jews are going to hell. Oh wait, don't answer that, because I know you aren't sure about the "afterlife."
-Zoe
I have dealt with more hatred than you will ever deal with, little miss catholicgirl12030. Ok? Now. Stop your nonsense and stop pushing your beliefs on other people. You are the person that makes other people say that religion is stupid. You are the person that makes people disrespect religious people. You are EVERYONE'S worst nightmare.
And, yeah, you are acting as God by saying that so and so is going to hell. Isn't God the power that decides where one goes in terms of their afterlife? Um, yeah. He is. So who are you to say where people are going to go? Are you God? Are you his Jesus? No.
Now. As for everyone else in the world who isn't a part of your religion... We have no hope unless we accept Jesus as our savior. Because anyone with differing opinions from yours is just going to burn in hell for eternity while you soak up the rays with you and your god-loving, church-going, bible-thumping straight friends. I hope you know, however, that Jesus was a Jew, so theoretically, you should pray for him too...because wouldn't that be twisted if he was shoveling coal right along beside me in HELL?
Never before have I met someone crazy. Not once did I think I would have the pleasure of meeting someone so ignorant. I never imagined that I’d be graced by the presence of someone so closed-minded that they allow their beliefs to come before anything else, even the feelings and beliefs of others. However, more so than before, I want to understand where, how, and why there are groups of people in the religious world who refuse to accept others based on various factors. I don’t intend to change anybody because I realize that someone is going to believe in whatever they choose until they realize by themselves the misleading nature of it. Until that point, any attempt to educate or enlighten them about others’ beliefs is futile and a wasted expense of energy and time. But the truth is, I feel sorry for you, as you have no sense of the real world and it's going to hit you incredibly hard if you remain stuck in this ridiculous realm that you have grown up in and have become accustomed to. It’s a pity that you can’t accept people and their differences when that’s what religion is all about. Well, that’s what I thought, but maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know everything. Maybe someone should tell me how it really works because I might be living in some weird fake realm as well, just as you are. But there’s one big difference: I have never told anyone that I want to convert them.
The reason God won't send "another son of God" is because it isn't time. It's not time for Jesus to come back to Earth. God can't have someone make one fish into several fish because they aren't the son of God. If the son of God came, the world would be over, so there would be no point in making food. There are many operations, especially those run by religious groups, that feed the starving children. We would be very lucky if that was our worst problem. I know, our world is messed up, but it has a reason to be that way. I don't know what that reason is, only God knows, but there IS a reason.
I'm sorry if you think I'm brainwashed. and yes I've known a gay person. I've tried to stress that gays aren't bad people, I just don't agree with their decisions.
-Zoe
anonymous, I really don't feel like addressing your comment right now because I am really tired. I promise I will reply to your comment tomorrow!
-Zoe
Zoe, you said that there is a reason that the world is so messed up, but that you don't know what it is. I can't even imagine how there could be a reason...unless, as I've said and believe, that God gave us the freedom of choice. I don't think that he can interfere with our choices, because that is what he decided when he put us on this earth. I don't see how God could find a reason for keeping murderers on this earth, and children dying from hunger. By my belief, it is because he can't change these things. By yours, there is a reason for this? I can't see how their could be.
Also, I don't really know which stories in the Bible are real and which ones serve just as metaphors. Nobody can really know, right? I just don't believe certain stories, especially the drastic unrealism of some, like Noah's Ark. I can't tell you which ones I believe in, and which ones I don't. It doesn't matter anyway, because the only important thing about the Bible is the messages that it makes.
Anonymous, you called me all kinds of names, I'm not going to try and fight back. I really don't care. I'm just going to forgive you. I'm not trying to act like God at all, He is an amazing power and I can't even try to be that close to as awesome as him. You said this, "Because anyone with differing opinions from yours is just going to burn in hell for eternity while you soak up the rays with you and your god-loving, church-going, bible-thumping straight friends." I never ever said that anyone was going to Hell. I wouldn't ever tell anyone to go to Hell or say that they were going to Hell. I'm not trying to be God and I'm definatly not trying to tell people where they are going to go after they die! Please respect me and don't say these things. Go ahead and call me names, whatever. I just don't want you to insult how much I love God and Jesus Christ, my savior. You said that there's one big difference between us: that you've never told anyone to convert. Well that's not a difference because I've never told anyone to convert either.
-Zoe
There are two anonomemese!
anonomesese? do you mean anonymouses? i think so! yeah if one of you wants to change or just add a nickname, instead of filling in the anonymous bubble, you click the name/url thing and type in your name. don't worry about the url thing! if you do, I'll add you to the members thingy! :)
-Zoe
hi stef
You need to fight back! See? You aren't even taken my opinon into consideration! You areb't even lissening to what I have to say! My point has been proven. You didn't accually say you want to convert someone, but you most definatly infered it. And don't give me that, "I forgive you, I am such a good little forgiving girl" act eighther. It just makes it look like you can't think of a come back anymore. Did you know being gay is in your DNA? If you belive we are all Gods children, then God made people that way. Please respond to that.
HEATHA BOOSHIE!!!!!!
Who is this Booshy we speak of?
Little known fact "Booshy" is code for "Bootie".
why the hell are ther 52 posts this isn't that interesting!
Third anonymous, you might think this is not interesting but we do. You shouldn't state your opinons as facts eighther. It makes you sound arrigant.
I anyone gunna coment? This was getting interesting!
Okay, anonymous, go ahead, call me names. I really don't care, but I'm not acting. Go ahead; say that being gay is in their DNA, but until you prove it, with a reliable source, I won't believe you. I don't think God would make someone something that he wouldn't approve of. And I think that being gay is their choice, just like being a killer. This brings Alexa's idea of God not controlling our choices into play. He doesn't control our choices and I don't think he would make something purposely that he doesn't approve of. Therefore, I believe gay people choose to be gay. That's my opinion; Go ahead, try and change my mind. I'll listen, but I won't necessarily change my mind.
-Zoe
Zoe did you seriously just compair gays to killers? Have you ever even considered that (if she in fact existed) god doesn't "disaproov" of us but did it on pourpose? FYI to everyone, some gay people are gay because of how they are raised and some are gay because of their DNA (I would say that I AM a reliable source) and some gays were just born in the rong body (therefor they love the same gender because they are supposed to be the other) I hope this clears it up a bit.
Bisexual people are the ones who are more likley to have chosen which gender they date, sleep with, ect...
Zoe, here is a link to a site about how it is not your choice to be gay. If you still don't belive me, I have many more sites up my sleeve.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080331232216AAxvVro
Maria, I don't want to come up with comebacks. I don't care. Oh and that link that you posted was a question on Yahoo! Questions that asked "If the doctors proved being gay was in your DNA..."! That doesn't say that they have and I really don't think that they have. If you can find a scientific study that proves that, I will maybe consider it, but they haven't proved it yet...
-Zoe
Yes they have! Want another link? Gave you the wrong one. And I mean you aren't responding to my points I am making. Why do you think being gay is wrong?
Here is the link!
http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research/story/0,9865,1508092,00.html
i can't go to the link because it is being cut off on my computer i'll try and access it another way but there are not guarantees! And no i don't think that they have proven that being gay is in your dna. i've stated several times why i think being gay is wrong and i don't want to do it again. if you want to go, it's accesable in many places on this blog. Go find it.
-Zoe
I know that this has been getting all too personal from what I have just came across.
What catholicgirl12030 is saying, is not offensive at all. It's all on how you take it in. Catholics do pray this prayer, and yes, we are hoping everyone will believe in Jesus. Because Yes, there is only one right religon- and that is following Christ.
Also, the Bible stories ARE true! They are not used as metaphorical points, they are real stories that actually happened.
You can scoff at me all you want, and thats find- but this is what I believe. This is what is right, and always will be.
I'll tell ya. It's hard to belive in Christ at such a time like this in the world. But I guess faith is what drives me, and all the other Christians along. Christ will come again one day- and there will be no arguments such as this. Just love, peace, and happiness.
God Bless, I'm praying for you all
Especially the people who dont want my prayers.
"Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed." John 20:29B
Anonymous, I greatly respect the way you presented your beliefs. Although, they were highly intelligent and peaceful, I don't agree with you on the Bible stories thing. But there is no way I think the Bible is "fake." I think the Bible is full of wonderful inspiration that I deepy respect and believe in. Zoe, it offended me when you said I think the Bible is fake...I just want to get that across.
Anonymous. I especially liked it when you said "it's hard to belive in Christ at such a time like this in the world" because a lot of people nowadays are saying, "If there's a God, why is the world so screwed up? Why are innocent people being killed?" And that truly bothers me. Bless them for their curiousity, because I think the only way to get answers is to ask questions, but to think that our world is the way it is because there is no God, is a bit snooty. We make our own decisions. I believe those people are pessimists.
Oh, I also wanted to share with you guys one of the passages in the bible that happens to be one of my favorites. Maybe this is what dying and going to Heaven would be like...
Isaiah 55:12 (NIV)
You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.
: ) I think that passage is brilliant and beautiful. : )
Anonymous, I'd like to say that I am in fact a Catholic, and I don't believe that everyone should follow Jesus. I also don't believe that it is the "right religion." So, please next time don't say
"we" when you mention Catholics, because I know I'm not the only Catholic that doesn't agree with that particular prayer. As I've said before, religion is all about personal beliefs. I can believe something that I think is right and true. I believe in Jesus, for example. But other people don't, and I don't think that they are wrong. Just because people don't have the same beliefs as you doesn't make them wrong. Religion is all about opinions. And opinions can't be wrong.
Anonymous, I couldn't say it any better myself! That's exactly what I believe! I liked when you used the term "we" because that is how it is supposed to be. All the Catholics are supposed to be united as one in Christ. That totally makes sense. I'm speechless. I couldn't say anything better! :)
Steph, I said that you thoguth that the Bible stories were fake because you implied that they were fake in what you said. I was just stating what you said in a clearer way.
Anonymous, once again, I wanted to praise you for what you said about the prayer not being offensive. Catholics or God wouldn't make anything offensive on purpose! Oh my goodness. Anonymous, are you a guy? because if you are, you need to tell me if you're hot! If you're a guy, you are my dream man!
-Zoe
We, as in Catholics, can be united through Christ and still disagree with some of the church's decisions. I'm not just going to nod my head in agreement with everything my religion says just because its my religion. Can I not have my own opinion anymore? I'm not going to jump off the cliff because everyone else says its the right thing to do. I fully object to that particular prayer our church says, and I don't want to be grouped with the people who think that it is okay.
Alexa, I don't think you fully understand the prayer. It's not meant to be offensive to Jews. It's just our opinion. If they prayed that Catholics should stop believing in Jesus, I would be fine with that even though I don't agree with it. I think that it is totally inappropriate that the Jews got involved in our prayers. It just happens to be some of our personal beliefs that I don't think they should be messing with.
-Zoe
Well Zoe, I'll have you know that most girls think I resemble Orlando Bloom. Only way hotter.
Really? Wow! Haha I'll stop being completely inappropriate but you sound H-O-T!!!
Except the prayer IS hurtful and rude. And everyone who i've told about it agrees. Whether or not you mean for the prayer to be rude, it still comes across as terribly offensive. And I highly doubt that you would be okay if i prayed for you to come to the right sense of mind and admit that jesus was a nobody. I mean, I even admit that's terribly offensive. I would never pray for anything like that. You have no right to pray for me to change my beliefs. No right.
Jews have constantly faced discrimination like this. We've always been persecuted. Opinions like these only make it worse. The fact that you still pray for me to find Jesus even when I asked you not to is what bothers me the most. I am so happy in where I am in my life, and what I believe in, that I genuinly don't want your prayers. If you were to pray for me if i were sick or something, I would accept them gladly. But as i said before, these things are very different.
And anonymous, every single religion has people who have no doubt in their minds that they are 1000000000% right. So obviously some of those people must be wrong, but none of them will dare to admit it. Clearly there are "incorrect" religions in the world, but they could all end up being "wrong" in the end as well.
And zoe, jews have every right to intervene in anything you do if it offends them. Are you saying jews should just shut up and suck it up when you are saying something that is so offensive, prejudice, and rude that I can hardly even believe it?
And I found it kinda rude when you put it this way: "I think that it is totally inappropriate that the Jews got involved in our prayers."
The jews. You say it like its so demeaning and dirty. Earlier you said you don't care about religious conflict. I think its high time that you do.
Okay, Becca. It's all in how you interpret the prayer. Go ahead and interpret it as hurtful and rude, but I don't think of it that way. I just want people to get the same joy and love that I feel from Jesus. You said I had no right to pray for you to change your beliefs. I believe I do. It's a free country and nobody can stop me from praying for you or anyone else. That's what's so great about this country: I can pray for anyone I want and nobody can stop me. I agree with you, Becca. I know Jews have been discriminated against, but so have Christians. There was a time, where all over the world, it was illegal to be Christian, but we perservered and that makes us strong. I don't think that the Jews have a right to intervene in any prayers, just as Catholics don't have the right to intervene in any prayers either. When I said, "I think that it is totally inappropriate that the Jews got involved in our prayers," I didn't mean for it to be offensive. I just really don't think that any religion should get involved in other religon's problems or prayers. That is the own religion's job.
-Zoe
ps sorry if you take offense to whatever i say but i don't mean it in an offensive way. i just mean it.
Okay, first of all, I understand the prayer Zoe. I understand it perfectly. And just because something isn't meant to be innappropriate, doesn't mean it isn't innappropriate. For example, I've heard of teachers that love their students. Since its love, the teacher may not find their relationship innappropriate. However, for the rest of us, it is undoubtedly innappropriate.
Secondly, all things said that prayer is saying that the Jewish religion is founded on incorrect beliefs. You are saying that they are completely wrong and should change. You are attempting to convert them through your prayers. No matter what you say, that is very rude and ignorant. Just because you think that your right, doesn't make it that everyone should think that your right.
Thirdly, I have an unreligious example for you. Let's say a soccer player loves to play soccer. They think that it is the perfect sport, and the right sport for everyone to play. So, they pray to God that all field hockey players come to their senses and start playing soccer, because field hockey isn't as great a sport as soccer. Well, (a) if the field hockey players wanted to change to soccer, they would just do that, no prayer needed. (B), I don't think that the field hockey players would appreciate knowing that the soccer players think that field hockey is the incorrect sport to play. This is exactly what that prayer is saying, only in a different context. Do you think that this prayer is alright? And I know that you keep saying that anyone can pray for anything, but people don't pray things unless they actually mean them and want them to come true. And the worst part of that Good Friday prayer, is that they're doing it in public and out loud, so everyone can know their intentions. And they're publicly saying that the Jewish religion is wrong.
Okay, Alexa, I don't care what you think about the prayer but that is what I feel. Expressing your prayers publicly, not like in the middle of the street but like at church, is what is supposed to happen. That's one of the reasons we go to church.
That example wasn't even worth reading. it had like nothing to do with this subject.
-Zoe
I think it does...
It's a free country? That's the best you can come up with? It seems like a bit of a childish argument to me. And if you're going to pull that card, I can too:
It's a free country! I can deny your prayers all I want! And I can be a Jew too!
The thing I don't understand is the fact that I asked you if you could make everyone in the world Catholic, and you said no. You said diversity is good. And then you also say that you pray for everyone to find the love in Jesus that you find with him. You pray that everyone, regardless of their religion, will share your beliefs. Well make up your mind.
Either you appreciate diversity and other religions, or you wish that everyone believed the same things that you do. You can't really pray for both. They are completely contradicting views.
"I just want people to get the same joy and love that I feel from Jesus."
Translation: "I just want you to be Catholic like me!"
You took the liberty of telling Steph that she thinks the bible is fake. You claim you were just saying what she was saying in simpler terms. Well that's what you are saying in simpler terms. You just wish I was Catholic!
There's nothing wrong with believing your religion is right. There's nothing wrong with being an adament believer. What's wrong is when you pray for others to follow the same religion you do. As Alexa put it (very well I might add) if someone is keen on converting to your relgion, Zoe, they'll do it. They don't need your prayers. Your praying for them is not going to make a difference. So why do you insist on doing so when many find it insulting, and I request that you don't?
And could you also tell me why the prayer pinpoints Jews specifically? Are we more "wrong" than any other religion?
Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.
I'd also like to add: ZING!
Becca, I never said you couldn't object to the prayers and I didn't say you couldn't be a Jew either. It being a free country isn't a "childish argument." It's true and if it wasn't a free country I don't think that you would be saying such things. I said that I don't want to have to personally change it. I want to leave that choice up to God. I believe that everyone should be Catholic, but that doesn't mean I'm going to try and convert everyone myself. I'll let God make that choice. When you translated what I said, you were completely correct. I just want people to love Jesus like me, and that would pretty much require them to be Catholic. Yes, Becca, I do wish you were Catholic; I wish everyone was Catholic, but once again, I don't want to do it, I want God to. I really don't care if you request me not to pray for something; it's not going to change what I pray for. I'm not positive about this answer to the last question, but I think it is because Jews are the one of the closest religons to Catholics (other than other Christians that is) and I think that it would be amazing if Jews became Catholics.
-Zoe
wow and you (becca) think that the free country thing is childish! why don't you talk about steph's "zing"ing! I would consider that a little immature.
Umm as for Steph's zing zing thing, i'm not going to attack someone who's on my side.
Anyway, Jews arent Catholics. Get over it. If it weren't for the Jewish religion in the first place, you wouldn't have your religion. In fact, you could trace the two most major monotheistic religions (Islam and Christianity) back to Judaism. Techinically, without Judaism, you wouldn't have either one of them.
I sincerely hope that the Jewish religion never becomes extinct. It has such a long history, and it has survived such terrible times. Judaism has faced MUCH more dangerous threats than people praying for them to join their religion. And we have prevaled through all of them.
It's unfortunate that you have such narrow minded views. I pity that. I really do.
Haha. I only tell the truth though...:P. Sorry if you were insulted. But I think it's more insulting to pray for perfectly content people to convert to your religion. And to think it would be "amazing" if everyone was the same religion. The "right" religion, according to you. But, I just have one question for you: how do you know that you're right? What if nobody is right? What if we're all just dolls in a little girl's doll house, and we're really just being moved around, and making decisions by some 2nd grader? What if our whole universe is in a tiny raindrop and when it falls on the sidewalk, human life ends. Life is a mystery, and I'm not saying you can't have beliefs. But convincing or forcing or even praying for other people to join your beliefs because you apparently know you're right is simply ridiculous. This world, how it was made, how it will end...nobody knows, Zoe. So stop acting like YOU do.
AND I can't believe you think everyone in the whole world should be Catholic! How narrow minded. And you say you welcome diversity? What in the world are you talking about? Having everyone be the same religion is not diverse!
Yes. Becca is Jewish. No. She's not Catholic. Yes. I like her just the way she is. Whether you, or anybody else, thinks that her religion doesn't make sense. I'd rather have her own beliefs than "come to her senses" and act like you.
Whatever becca. I don't care if you hope that Judiasm will last forever, because at the end of the world, it's probably not gonna work out. I'm not implying that Jews will go to Hell, I just think that they should change before the son of God comes back to save and end the world. And if the Jews don't realize that Jesus was the son of God when he was living, then Jews probably won't realize it when Jesus comes again at the end of the world. I know that Judiasm was the start to everything, and that's great for you, but I really don't think it's going to last until the end of the world. You think about those dangerous threats, but none of them can be more "dangerous" than prayer. Prayer is more powerful than anything else. You say I have narrow-minded views yet you are talking about how Jews are the beginning and right.
-Zoe
Steph, now you are calling prayer ridiculous? Oh and I'm not acting like I know how the world will end; I'm letting God take care of that. I'm putting my whole life in God's hands. Steph, you think the only way to be diverse is religion. I can want people to all be Catholic but want them to be diverse as well. Everyone being Catholic doesn't automatically make them all the same with no diversity. Oh and that's for the insult. People seem to enjoy insulting me because of what I believe. You notice I don't do that. That's because I TRY MY BEST to not sin. And insulting people would be considered a sin. If any of you are Catholic, and you go to confession, which most Catholics don't, make sure you tell the priest about insulting people...
-Zoe
Not once did she say Judaism was the right religion. Not once. Either you quote her or stop falsely accusing her. You have a habit of putting words in people's mouths and incorrectly translating them. For example, I said the Bible contains metaphorical stories to illustrate points. You said I think the Bible is fake. Um. Yeah.
Oh yeah. Because Becca's not insulted, right? And those jews who went to complain about the Good Friday prayer weren't insulted either. Of course. You haven't insulted anyone. My bad.
Newsflash Zoe (I apologize for the cheesiness), your sly little remarks count as insults too. You've still insulted people, including myself, whether you've meant it or not. Everybody sins Zoe. No matter how many times you got church a week.
And I never said prayer was ridiculous. Once again. Twisting my words.
And even though there are other ways to be diverse, I still can't believe you think that everyone should be Catholic. A world where everyone is the same religion is disturbing to me. There wouldn't be any debates like this. Half the people on this blog would be a different religion than they are now. Everyone would follow the rules and opinions of the church, which you apparently think all Catholics should. That's unsettling...
I said Judaism kicked off monotheistic religions. That's the truth. I never said it was the "right" religion. In that case, im not as biggoted as you, in believing that my religion is the only right religion. I don't think that the only way to get into heaven is to follow my religion.
There are some truely amazing Catholics in the world. There are amazing Muslims, and Buddhists, and Jews. There are incredible athiests, and good people from any other religion. You seriously think that after they live such peaceful and pious lives, it'll all be a waste "in the end"?
I know a lovely orthodox Jewish family. They pray every day, and they follow the religion so strictly, and they're just a group of wonderful people. I practically grew up with them. Don't you dare say that it's not worth it. Don' you dare say that you think they won't be accepted into the heaven because they followed the "wrong" religion.
And you should probably stop stating your opinions as if they're facts. Cuz they're not. Hence the word opinion. Religion is not fact. That's the bottom line. Even the right "religion" is not fact.
Whoa whoa whoa zoe. Who is insulting you? Please take direct quotes, and please restrain putting words in people's mouths. I am questioning your opinions, because they are terribly rude and hurtful. I didn't insult you because frankly, I don't want to sink to your level.
Maybe instead of trying to make everyone feel bad for you and maybe instead of making yourself out to be the victim, you should say sorry. Because steph's right. If anything, you're the one who's spewing out the hurtful stuff right here.
P.S. STEPH NEVER CALLED PRAYER RIDICULOUS!
"praying for other people to join your beliefs because you apparently know you're right is simply ridiculous"
she said that praying for people to change their religion is ridiculous. And thats becuase it is. You should really stop putting words in people's mouths. Thats not okay.
P.P.S.
This is a direct quote from one of your posts zoe
"I don't care if you hope that Judiasm will last forever, because at the end of the world, it's probably not gonna work out."
Thats not insulting? You try your best not to insult us? Half of your arguments are insulting! If you really think youre that amazing of a person, you should apologize to me, because whether you meant to or not, you DEFINITELY insulted me.
And steph.
As I've said before, when God put us on this earth, he gave us the freedom of choice. He let us choose everything, including what religion to believe in. If he wanted us all to believe in the same things he would have made sure that we did. But he didn't. He let us make our own choices.
"That example wasn't even worth reading. it had like nothing to do with this subject." I was personally offended by this. Just because I wasn't talking about religion, doesn't mean that is has nothing to do with religion. I was taking an example that follows the same concept as this prayer. Explain to me how it is irrelevant. And you never answered my questions. Do you think that praying for someone to switch sports because they're playing the wrong sport is alright?
Very well put Lessay. Why would God let us make our own choices if he wanted us to all be the same religion-wise?
And her example WAS applicable, Zoe. She was just putting it in different terms other than religion so you could see how silly it seems.
Zoe? Any response?
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